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[2011.06.16] 天下之事,古已有之

2011-6-18 15:07| 发布者: Somers| 查看: 9480| 评论: 56|原作者: tchch143

摘要: 昔日中国一统天下之时,哲学家们的所思所想,及其对今日中国的裨益
天下之事,古已有之

昔日中国一统天下之时,哲学家们的所思所想,及其对今日中国的裨益


034 Asia - Banyan.mp3
Jun 16th 2011 | from the print edition

当亨利•基辛格在1970年代初开启访华的破冰之旅的时候,这个国家尚沉浸在批林批孔运动之中(林彪是一位蒙羞的共产党领导人,刚辞世不久)。就像后来评论所指出的那样,这种情况就好像美国报刊在诽谤尼克松和亚里士多德。但是中国自己的历史——其领导人在谈话中总是喜欢向外国人提及的5000年历史——在其国内政治和世界观中,一直是个永恒的主题。

而近些年来中国崛起所处的大背景却是一个遵循外国新贵所创设的原则而建构起来的世界。西方人通常认为,多党民主是所有其他制度最终要逐渐发展到的政体,而许多中国人却对这种观念颇为恼怒。但一些学者也对欧洲另一项创造深表不安,那就是民族国家——现代外交的基石。多年以来,他们一直殚精竭虑地阐发中国特色的国际关系理论,毕竟这几乎事关民族自豪感,甚至民族沙文主义:“中国作为一个快速崛起的大国,绝不能没有自己的理论”,2009年时一个名叫邱延平(音译)的共产党高官在一篇文章中如是写道。

因此将中国古代哲学家创设的原则应用于现代世界之风气蔚为一时。时下有个词正重新流行起来,它叫做“天下”,或者叫“普天之下”。这个词要回溯到公元前221年中国第一个皇帝——秦始皇统一中国之前的战国时期,在那一时期以孔子、孟子、老子以及其他诸子为代表中国古典哲学迎来黄金时代。“天下”被广泛理解为由一个国家(可能称之为“中央王国”)所主导的统一世界,在这一世界中,该国的邻国和远邦要向它寻求指导和进行朝贡。

北京的赵汀阳(音译)是一个哲学家,以其多年前所写的一部关于天下的书而闻名,他表示“天下”这个概念是以古代一位圣君——周公的愿景为基础的。周公认识到,对于周国这个小国来说,要想统治其他番邦,就不能诉诸武力,而必须转而求之于自己在道德和政治上的表率作用。就像赵所补充的那样,天下是一种追求普遍和谐的乌托邦式的愿景,到了这样的社会,每个人都会选择进入全球政府的体系之中,而他承认在200-300年内这是不会实现的。

赵是一位彬彬有礼、温文尔雅和颇为超凡脱俗的学者,而不是一个慷慨激昂的中国民族主义者。他说,就像周公时期一样,当今的国家也没有必要追求主导地位。他所主张的并不是一个中国所主导的世界秩序,而是一个平等的制度, “天下”是自愿的选择,没有强迫。对于权术政治来说,这只是一个遥远的梦想,而不是一个宣言,这当然是不言而喻的。

然而“天下”这个概念也让人眼前一亮,一些人甚至在中共领导人胡锦涛(赵与他从未谋面)所倡导的“和谐社会”理想中,察觉到它的影子。在流行文化中,“天下”的概念在张艺谋(中国最著名的导演之一)史诗般的武侠片——《英雄》中赫然耸现。该片以秦统一中国时期为背景,曾经在2002年上映。一些人也在2008年北京奥运会的广告语——“同一个世界,同一个梦想”中听出了“天下”的回声。

虽然赵并未就由中国取代美国领导世界新秩序问题提出中国自己的蓝图,但是人们对他的误解却令他在国内颇受欢迎。张维为的新书《一个文明型国家的崛起》目前进入中国最畅销书榜单。张认为,中国作为“世界仅有的古代文明与庞大的现代国家的融合之物”是很不寻常的,它正越来越多地回到根基寻求灵感,创造它自己的准则和规范。”

在另一本新书——《古代中国思想,现代中国力量》中(这一本是用英文写的),北京清华大学学者阎学通断言,“创立一个国际关系理论的中国学派是不可能的”,但他认为先秦思想能够“发展和丰富国际关系理论”。一名英国评论家曾经把阎称为一个“新共产主义者”,即一个决心挫败美国霸权主义的坚定的中国民族主义者——有点儿类似于美国的新保守主义者。但是该书的编者之一丹尼尔•贝尔(也来自清华)却主张,阎的观点由于人们忽视了他所强调的重点而受到了误解,他像先秦的哲学家一样,论述了在政治活动和使中国成为一个“遵从人治的超级大国”的过程中道德的重要性。

避免重蹈“失败的世界”


对于像阎和赵这样的学者来说,先秦思想家为解决赵称之为“失败的世界(其战争没有休止)”的问题提供了新方法。其中的一个问题是国家间名义上平等的民族国家体系不能让更为平等的国家受到褒奖。如在去年与东亚邻国共同召开的一次会议上,中国外长就曾直言不讳地指出,“中国是一个大国,其他国家是小国,那就是事实”。另一个问题是国家政府,特别是(中国的一些人可能会主张)民主制的国家政府经常忽视那些没有选票者,如未出生的后代和外国人的利益。

在国外,这些理论家的思想常常被怀疑为中国卓异主义的借口,和它对自己不喜欢的国际规则进行抵制的托词。但是在国内,他们遇到的阻碍同样令人望而生畏的。极为务实的共产党不会接受这些位于中国经典哲学核心的道德戒律,并且尽管主权不容侵犯这种民族国家思想是西方的舶来品(在西方,其地位与中国经典哲学之于中国同样重要),但是中国已成为其最坚定的支持者之一,而且当它察觉到受到“主权侵犯”时,也会为之进行最激烈的抨击。再者,我们也很难说,中国近些年所取得的惊人成就与当前的国际体系能够脱离干系。其实,中国可能已成为它最大的受益者之一。

 
 
 
本文由译者 tchch143 提供 点击此处阅读双语版



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引用 molitao 2011-6-17 15:38
我觉得“when China was the world”可以译成当中国是天朝上国的时候
“a recently dead and disgraced Communist leader”这句话的时态是1970s,而“林彪是一位蒙羞的共产党领导人,不久前辞世”这句话的时态给人感觉是最近发生的事
“a constant presence in its domestic politics and its view of the world”, presence这个词译成主题太牵强了,而且你不觉得党理论上的主题是共产主义,实践中的主题是经济建设吗?
我觉得其实parvenus还是译成暴发户好啦
“multiparty democracy is the form of government towards which all other systems evolve”这句话里面 towards是趋势的意思
引用 tchch143 2011-6-17 21:54
回复 molitao 的帖子

首先对你的意见表示感谢,下面逐条答复:
1、我觉得“when China was the world”可以译成当中国是天朝上国的时候
答复:very good
2、“a recently dead and disgraced Communist leader”这句话的时态是1970s,而“林彪是一位蒙羞的共产党领导人,不久前辞世”这句话的时态给人感觉是最近发生的事
答复:我怀疑作者犯了常识性错误,而如果按照你的说法,我也不知道如何翻译,请具体赐教。
3、“a constant presence in its domestic politics and its view of the world”, presence这个词译成主题太牵强了,而且你不觉得党理论上的主题是共产主义,实践中的主题是经济建设吗?
答复:按照字面翻译:在国内政治和世界观中恒久的存在,如果按单个词翻译,觉得不“雅”,而你对主题的理解,我未从事党务,恕不能理解,未审你有何高见?
4、我觉得其实parvenus还是译成暴发户好啦
答复:我觉得文中作者想说,中国曾经是天朝上国,而西方的某些国家后来也纷纷主导世界,西方作者说他们自己是暴发户,觉得不妥,还是新贵好一些。
5、“multiparty democracy is the form of government towards which all other systems evolve”这句话里面 towards是趋势的意思
答复:赞叹,非常细心,有eco的风格,跟译言非常不同。
改译为:多党政治是所有其他制度最终要逐步发展到的政体

引用 wharton323 2011-6-17 22:11
回复 tchch143 的帖子

2、“a recently dead and disgraced Communist leader”这句话的时态是1970s,而“林彪是一位蒙羞的共产党领导人,不久前辞世”这句话的时态给人感觉是最近发生的事
答复:我怀疑作者犯了常识性错误,

评:原文没有错。
引用 wharton323 2011-6-17 22:14
回复 tchch143 的帖子

1、我觉得“when China was the world”可以译成当中国是天朝上国的时候
答复:very good

评:“ was the world”指的“天下”(All Under Heaven)。
引用 tchch143 2011-6-17 22:15
回复 wharton323 的帖子

我已将它改为天下了,为了照顾主题
引用 tchch143 2011-6-17 22:16
本帖最后由 tchch143 于 2011-6-17 22:17 编辑

回复 wharton323 的帖子

请问recently到底该怎么翻译呢
引用 wharton323 2011-6-17 23:04
Though Mr Zhao was not proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America, the misconception that he was explains some of his appeal within China.
原译:虽然赵并未就由中国取代美国领导世界新秩序问题提出中国自己的蓝图,但是人们对他的误解却令他在国内颇受欢迎。

评:“误解他是。。。”没有译出。粗心了。
引用 wharton323 2011-6-17 23:08
humane authority !=人治,粗心了。
引用 wharton323 2011-6-17 23:16
回复 tchch143 的帖子

原文指的是尼克松访问前不久才死的。。。译文处理时,要重新调整一下。
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 05:28
Though Mr Zhao was not proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America, the misconception that he was explains some of his appeal within China.虽然赵并未就由中国取代美国领导世界新秩序问题提出中国自己的蓝图,但是人们对他的误解却令他在国内颇受欢迎。

评论: 原文的结构是:Though Mr Zhao was not proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America, the misconception that he was (proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America)explains some of his appeal within China.

虽然赵并未就由中国取代美国领导世界新秩序问题提出中国自己的蓝图,但是人们却误解他有提出这个蓝图, 这令他在国内颇受欢迎。

引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 05:42
According to Zhao Tingyang, a Beijing-based philosopher known for his book of a few years ago on tianxia, the concept is based on the vision of an ancient sage-king, the Duke of Zhou. The duke realised that for Zhou, a small state, to exercise sway over other feuding states, he could not rely on force of arms. It had instead to draw on its own moral and political example. As Mr Zhao updates this, tianxia is a Utopian vision of universal harmony, unattainable, he concedes, for 200-300 years, where everybody opts into a system of global government. 北京的赵汀阳(音译)是一个哲学家,以其多年前所写的一部关于天下的书而闻名,他表示“天下”这个概念是以古代一位圣君——周公的愿景为基础的。周公认识到,对于周国这个小国来说,要想统治其他番邦,就不能诉诸武力,而必须转而求之于自己在道德和政治上的表率作用。就像赵所补充的那样,天下是一种追求普遍和谐的乌托邦式的愿景,到了这样的社会,每个人都会选择进入全球政府的体系之中,而他承认在200-300年内这是不会实现的。

评论:As Mr Zhao updates this, 这里的this 指代什么? 应当是 tianxia, the concept 即  天下这个观念。那么, update 这个观念是什么意思? 天下是中国帝王式的观念, 翻译成(或用现代政治学的)现代语言或观念应是什么? 就应是Utopian vision of universal harmony。普遍和谐的乌托邦式的愿景。
a system of global government. 注意不是governments, 是单数, 不是复数。 应是全球治理的体系。
As Mr Zhao updates this, tianxia is a Utopian vision of universal harmony, unattainable, he concedes, for 200-300 years, where everybody opts into a system of global government.这句翻译应是:
“天下” 如果用赵翻译成的现代术语来说,就是一种普遍和谐的乌托邦式的愿景,他承认200-300年内是实现不了的, 因为现在人人都选择一种全球治理的体系。



引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 05:49
As Mr Zhao updates this, tianxia is a Utopian vision of universal harmony, unattainable, he concedes, for 200-300 years, where everybody opts into a system of global government.这句翻译应是:
“天下” 如果用赵翻译成的现代术语来说,就是一种普遍和谐的乌托邦式的愿景,他承认200-300年内是实现不了的, 因为现在人人都选择一种全球治理的体系。


superpower modelled on humane authority”.遵从人治的超级大国

评论: 更像是: 以仁治为本的超级大国。
引用 tchch143 2011-6-18 07:02
本帖最后由 tchch143 于 2011-6-18 07:13 编辑

回复 yannanchen 的帖子
原文的结构是:Though Mr Zhao was not proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America, the misconception that he was (proposing an indigenous blueprint for a China-led new world order to supplant the one led by America)explains some of his appeal within China.
虽然赵并未就由中国取代美国领导世界新秩序问题提出中国自己的蓝图,但是人们却误解他有提出这个蓝图, 这令他在国内颇受欢迎。


答复:陈老师一眼就看到了,我确实不明白the misconception that he was是何意思,thanks
另外还想向陈老师请教一下,was not proposing为什么用过去进行时,我对此不理解,特向您请教一下。
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 07:06
Cultural Dictionary

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others definition


A proclamation by the pigs who control the government in the novel Animal Farm, by George Orwell. The sentence is a comment on the hypocrisy of governments that proclaim the absolute equality of their citizens but give power and privileges to a small elite.
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 07:08
ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

When the animals take over the farm, they think it is the start of a better life. Their dreams is of a world where all animals are equal and all property is shared. But soon the pigs take control and one of them, Napoleon, becomes the leader of all the animals. One by one the principles of the revolution are abandoned, until the animals have even less freedom than before.


Submitted by Anonymous.


~




Animal Farm is a classic work by George Orwell and a noted piece of literature, which, of course, may help the reader to catapult the imagination beyond the horizons of dogmatic adherence to idealistic or Utopian thoughts. It however, represents human characteristics in an analogy of animal instincts, but it really gives insight into the Russian Revolution of 1917. It also mimics the doomsday of a precipitated change, brought by a modicum of bureaucratic class called as Bolsheviks.


Submitted by Rahimullah Baig Hunzai.


~




In this book, written in 1943 and 1944 while Orwell was working as a journalist and commentator for (among others) the BBC Orwell vents his profound disdain for Stalinism and his dissapointment with Marxism as political praxis. A particularly English brand of Socialist with a towering social concience Orwell himself not only campaigned on behalf of teh ILP but had the courage of his convictions to join the Poum in the fight against fascism in Spain in 1937. However, dissapointed and endangered by the political machinations of Stalins Russia in Spain and disgusted by the Molotov Ribbentrop non aggresion pact of 1939 and early communist rhetoric against involvement in World War 2 as a capitalist war, Orwell turns his not inconsiderable facility for satire against totalitarian socialism. Not so much against the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 but against the hypocracy, the repressiveness that that revolution descended into from the dreath of Lenin. This is one of teh best books in the English Language written by one of the most viscerally intelligent, humain, geniuses of the pen to have lived. It comes highly recommended.



Submitted by Anonymous.

Fan of this book? Help us introduce it to others by writing a better introduction for it. It's quick and easy, click here.
Related Links:Animal Farm Summary and Author Biography Find essays on Animal FarmQuizzes on Animal FarmAnimal Farm Easy QuizAnimal Farm Who is Who? QuizAnimal Farm: Characters and Themes QuizPlease submit a quiz here.


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Recent Forum Posts on Animal FarmInterestI am reading 'Animal Farm' for fun. I am find it very interest the way Orwell writes 'Farm Animal', mainly at moment chapter 5 it in refer to russian re and bolsk That Snowball in visions about how to use the windmill and built it. Also that Napolean only kept Snowball on side just for cowshed fight with two legs. Napolean is very clever complex character is secretly turn the pigs in to only communists army. Squealer is like store pigeon just wait right time whisper in the ears of animal. Squealer is one suppose put Napolean side of thing of now everything hes doing for good of animals. Napolean is true communist, just out own purpose.
Posted By zoolane at Fri 21 Jan 2011, 10:13 AM in Animal Farm || 4 Replies

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Posted By mk3500 at Sun 19 Dec 2010, 10:45 PM in Animal Farm || 3 Replies

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Posted By josh_rules at Wed 13 Oct 2010, 2:10 AM in Animal Farm || 3 Replies

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Posted By Chaoss at Tue 23 Mar 2010, 6:50 PM in Animal Farm || 1 Reply

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How is animal farm related to WWII?I'm doing a research paper where I have to compare the book "Animal Farm" to a famous event in history. I have chosen World War 2. I would prefer to compare it mainly to the war in Europe, with Hitler. I mainly need what items/characters in the book relate to things that happened during the war. Obviously, Napolean is Hitler. Any help would be appreciated!!!
Posted By Prototype at Wed 16 Dec 2009, 7:39 AM in Animal Farm || 8 Replies

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About George Orwell




TextSummary
SummarySummary Chp. 1Summary Chp. 2Summary Chp. 3Summary Chp. 4Summary Chp. 5Summary Chp. 6Summary Chp. 7Summary Chp. 8Summary Chp. 9Summary Chp. 10Character Summary

引用 tchch143 2011-6-18 07:24
回复 yannanchen 的帖子
superpower modelled on humane authority”.遵从人治的超级大国

评论: 更像是: 以仁治为本的超级大国。


很高明,更符合汉语表达方式
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 07:25
For scholars like Mr Yan and Mr Zhao, the pre-Qin thinkers offer fresh approaches to solving the problems of what Mr Zhao calls a “failed world”, with its endless wars. One is that the nation-state system of notional equality between countries fails to recognise that some are more equal than others. As China’s foreign minister bluntly pointed out last year at a meeting with its South-East Asian neighbours: “China is a big country and other countries are small countries and that’s just a fact.” A second problem is that national governments—especially, some in China would argue, in democracies—often ignore the interests of those without a vote, such as unborn generations and foreigners.

评论: 这段行文很怪。One is that 这句里的one 指什么? 回溯检查, 我的第一个感觉是approach, 而不是problem。 直到读到A second problem时才发觉这个one 指的是one problem。

some are more equal than others 什么意思? 从引的资料看, 直译为:有些(人,国, 等) 要比另一些更平等, 恐怕表达不出其深意。
实际上, 它说的是, 没有真正的一律平等, 有些因特殊情况, 需要享受特权。 民族国家所标榜的国家间观念上的平等体系有问题, 这个问题就是该体系没有能认识到有些国家就是要比别的国家享受更多的平等。 正如中国的外交部长所宣扬的那样。
第二个问题就是民族国家的政府(national governments), 尤其是那些民主政府,——中国某些人有如此议论——经常无视不能参加投票选举那些人的利益, 比如未出生的将来一代, 以及外国人。
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 07:32
回复 tchch143 的帖子

5 Repetition and Irritation with "Always"


The Past Continuous with words such as "always" or "constantly" expresses the idea that something irritating or shocking often happened in the past. The concept is very similar to the expression "used to" but with negative emotion. Remember to put the words "always" or "constantly" between "be" and "verb+ing."

Examples:

•She was always coming to class late.
•He was constantly talking. He annoyed everyone.
•I didn't like them because they were always complaining.

本句尽管没有always 等, 应当一样。
引用 yannanchen 2011-6-18 07:33
Beyond the failed state
避免重蹈“失败的世界”

评论: beyond 超越?

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