[2011.7.30] 国破心伤，更与何人说

引用 林忆纾 2011-8-1 09:12

自坐沙发，等砖拍。

引用 migmig 2011-8-1 09:28

欲与何人说
更与何人说
如何？

引用 migmig 2011-8-1 09:30

保罗•法莫，哈佛医学院教授
古文一般是“者……也”句式。
保罗•法莫者，哈佛医学院教授也。
中文一般说
哈佛医学院教授保罗•法莫

引用 migmig 2011-8-1 09:32

本帖最后由 migmig 于 2011-8-1 09:33 编辑

提命 tí mìnɡ

1.犹言耳提面命。谓亲自教诲。语本《诗．大雅．抑》:"匪面命之，言提其耳。"

清 郑日奎 《与邓卫玉书》：“固未尝亲炙其人，受其提命者也。”

http://cidian.xpcha.com/bd96begquq1.html

引用 migmig 2011-8-1 09:34

晤教

中文无此词。

引用 migmig 2011-8-1 09:40

本帖最后由 migmig 于 2011-8-1 09:47 编辑

The position would let him bridge the divide between “praxis and policy”—between “direct service, which is what doctors are supposed to provide, and policy, which is what politicians and legislators are supposed to formulate.”

The position would let him bridge the divide between “praxis and policy”。

position=post=the UN job  . bridge the divide 弥合分歧/在……与……之间架起桥梁

破折号后为解释性。

“praxis=direct service，which is what doctors are supposed to provide修饰之
policy,which is what politicians and legislators are supposed to formulate修饰之。

可翻作：所谓praxis，……；所谓policy，……。或者：praxis指的是……；policy指的是……。
拙见。

引用 echo.chan 2011-8-1 09:53

本来想讨论一番，但发现半文不通的错误比理解上的错误多
古文水平低下，不敢下手点评了

引用 诗洛儿 2011-8-1 16:00

文言文？？誒、

引用 11mango 2011-8-1 16:10

IN 2009 Paul Farmer, a professor at Harvard Medical School, was named as the deputy UN special envoy to Haiti under Bill Clinton. Dr Farmer was married to a Haitian and had worked there for decades through Partners in Health, an NGO he co-founded that provides medical care to the poor. The UN job, though, was his first diplomatic post. The position would let him bridge the divide between “praxis and policy”—between “direct service, which is what doctors are supposed to provide, and policy, which is what politicians and legislators are supposed to formulate.”

哈佛医学院教授法莫，2009年，奉联合国之命，任海地副特使，上司比尔•克林顿。家有贤妻，海地生人。韶华十载，皆奉献于其乡。期间，通力组织非政府机构“卫生之友”，散福音于万千贫困者。然而，保罗尚无外交经验，此职实属重任。在平衡实践与政策间，费尽心思，或释之：就医者而言，追求便捷服务之心，毫不亚于政客、立法者于制定政策之切。

1.第一句拙译：2009年哈佛医学院教授保罗法莫被比尔克林顿任命为联合国赴海地特派副大使。
2. 然而，保罗尚无外交经验，此职实属重任。
这句发挥有些偏离愿意。此句是强调尽管在海地已经工作十年，已算不短，但此次却是第一份外交方面的工作，应该着重译出这个意思;
3. 在平衡实践与政策间，费尽心思，或释之：就医者而言，追求便捷服务之心，毫不亚于政客、立法者于制定政策之切。
并非“平衡”，而是bridge the divide；
后面“或释之”，“或”是“有人”的意思，原句并未有这个意思；第二个between…and…是对前句解释，所以还是译为 “…和…之间的脱节”较好。

Five months after his appointment a huge earthquake struck, leading to Haiti’s worst medical emergency. Dr Farmer arrived to work as a doctor and to help oversee the broader health-care response. He says he “struggled with [the] decision” to get involved in policy, but there is little sign of such trepidation in his book, which is a day-by-day account of his experience of the disaster, as well as a treatise on why Haiti was particularly vulnerable and how it should be rebuilt. The book’s greatest strength lies in its depiction of the post-quake chaos. In one town “slab roofs angled downward like wet cardboard.” The pavement by the morgue was “slick with bodily fluids.” Lacking basic tools, foreign doctors used a “hardware-store hacksaw” for amputations. In an overloaded hospital the son of one of the author’s acquaintances recognised “Dr Paul” and greeted him in English, gasping for breath. Dr Farmer got him to an American floating hospital. The next time he saw him was in the morgue.

上任刚满五个月，一场始未料及的地震突袭海地。救灾工作中，暴露出当地急救水平之差，寰宇无以比肩。事发后，法莫迅速就位，救死扶伤，协查卫生护理之需，以应伤亡扩大之急。法莫曾表示：“凡涉及政策之事，要我做出决定，无不纠结。”然而，在其书中，却鲜有此焦虑之意，不过“日复一日赘述灾难经验；论述海地如何不堪一击，重建一事有何见解”云云。要说其新作中最长处，莫在于对灾后混乱场景的刻画：见一镇内，盘状屋顶犹如硬纸之板浸水，断壁未若，坠坠然；横尸遍于道，血流成河，不辨人面；怎奈基本工具尚缺，截肢无物以使，外裔医生只好硬着头皮，借得五金店钢锯一用；医院内，哭天喊地之声不绝于耳。忽有小童，于人群中一眼识得保罗，本欲英语以迎，却无力相言。见于此，法莫立即将其送往一美国流动医院。无奈再见之时，竟仙凡有别之日。

1.worst medical emergency个人感觉应是强调情况的“最危急”，而非水平之差；
2.broader这里应该是指除了他所要负责现场医救工作的区域外，还要负责更大一片地区的health-care response
3.“赘述”是贬义词哦；“不过……云云”也有些贬义呢；
4. He says he “struggled with [the] decision” to get involved in policy，这里应该主要是说他纠结了很久是否要参与政策的制定；但同时中间那个the若略去的话，则表示他这个人太优柔寡断，没有决断力，不适合get involved in policy。不知道这样理解是否正确
5. “横尸遍于道”，并非遍于“道”，而是道旁的停尸间
6. 医院内，哭天喊地之声不绝于耳。忽有小童，于人群中一眼识得保罗，本欲英语以迎，却无力相言。
“哭天喊地”句想必是由overloaded而来，overloaded指医院人满为患；“gasping for breath”与“无力”还是有区别的；“本欲”表达未完成，实际是“greeted”，已完成；
7.“无奈”句，若执意用古文，建议“无奈再见之时，已仙凡有别矣。”

In the book’s more analytical sections the author’s diagnosis of the difficulties of reconstruction is sharp. Haiti’s tent cities persist because most of their occupants rented their homes and now have nowhere else to go; food and health care are provided there and the rubble has not been cleared away. Since Haiti has no concept of disability rights, victims with crushed limbs resisted amputation because the procedure would destroy their chances of getting a job.

在其书中，不乏分析章节。在保罗看来，海地重建之难，难于上青天。海地帐篷区的存在，盖因居者，多曾出租其室于人，后者以借口“无处可去”不还，才有此景。医食虽有，重建工作却迟迟未竟。伤残者自弃人权，罹难者拒以切割手术，任伤臂而不顾，因治疗过程中，工作随时不保。

1.“sharp”漏译
2．疑问：rented their houses是指租进还是租出呢？谁have nowhere to go?
3.clear rubble并非指“重建工作”；
4.并非“自弃”人权；“the procedure would destroy their chances of getting a job”，若截肢则意味着从此失业

引用 aosama 2011-8-1 16:19

Fabulous!

引用 11mango 2011-8-1 18:45

Such crisp explanation is unfortunately lacking in the book’s discussion of politics. Dr Farmer uncritically embraces the idea that the West is entirely to blame for Latin America’s ills. Foreigners are certainly responsible for some of Haiti’s woes—France charged the country the equivalent of $21 billion for the loss of its slaves, and America occupied it from 1915-34. But Dr Farmer’s shortened version of Haitian history is all too simplistic. There is but a single paragraph on the brutal home-grown dictatorship of François and Jean-Claude Duvalier. Jean-Bertrand Aristide—a former president who rigged an election, stashed $350,000 in cash in his home and used street gangs as his personal militia—is here merely the leader of a “popular movement”, toppled in 2004 because “the wealthy” and “foreign business interests” were out to “discipline or dislodge” him. (In fact, America sent 20,000 soldiers to Haiti to return Mr Aristide to power in 1994, after he had been deposed in a coup. ) Other aid NGOs are “trauma vultures” and their contractors “beltway bandits”, both in the grip of Washington’s “powerful”.

如上解释，本说言简意赅，无奈书中，却鲜有政治见解。如“拉美弊病，皆拜西方所赐”，保罗对此毫不含糊，双手赞成。此话虽然不假，但责任也非全在西方——前有法国索美元二十一亿，赔奴隶之损；后有美国霸占竟二十八年（1915-1934），肆其意而为。法莫目光短浅，将海地历史想的过于简单。弗朗哥，让-克洛德•杜华丽均为当地一霸，做尽残暴之事。本有料可写，但却寥寥几笔，一段带过。海地一前总统，操纵选举。室中，藏有黄金三十五万；室外，街头匪帮仗势作歹。回溯历史，让•贝特朗•阿里斯蒂德，算的上本国民权运动第一人。只可惜本国财主勾搭外国奸商，将其“和谐”下台。罢黜后，美国援兵两万，保阿里斯蒂德复任总统，重新执政。美非政府救援组织，无不尽趁火打劫之事，与其立契者，华盛顿内外顾问公司，皆受制于首都“权贵”人士。

1.“对此毫不含糊，双手赞成”，这句没有译出uncritically的贬义，
uncritical  
/ ˏʌnˈkrɪtɪkl; ʌnˋkrɪtɪkl/ adj ~ (of sth/sb) (esp derog 尤作贬义) unwilling or unable to criticize 不愿批评的; 无批评能力的: an uncritical attitude, view, etc 不愿批评的态度﹑ 观点等 * uncritical supporters of the government 不加批评而支持政府的人 * The review is uncritical of the violence in the film. 这篇评论对影片宣扬暴力方面未作批判. >
2. “此话虽然不假，但责任也非全在西方”，建议此句改为：“此话固然不假——”，衔接更顺畅
3. “目光短浅”，这个词过于贬义了，可以从轻处理为“法莫对海地历史的见解不深，过于简单化”
4. $350,000，不是“黄金”三十五万哈
5．“室外，街头匪帮仗势作歹”，这句话不能反映出来gangs是他的personal militia；
6．is here merely the leader of a “popular movement”，这句理解有些错误。此句意在强调那个操纵选举、贪污公款、横行霸道的总理在他书中竟然仅仅以“平民运动的领导者”一笔带过
7. toppled in 2004 because “the wealthy” and “foreign business interests” were out to “discipline or dislodge” him.同样，和上句承接，这句的语气也翻得不对
8．Other aid NGOs are “trauma vultures” and their contractors “beltway bandits”, both in the grip of Washington’s “powerful”.
这句话理解也稍有偏差。本句是在转述法莫书中的观点，所以首先，译文不能让读者觉得是在叙述海地实际状况。
NGO个人认为并非只是美国的，还有其他国家，只不过在作者看来，都在美国控制之中。
Contractor 翻译成“立约者”感觉不是很好。我查了下NGO的运作方式，还是不懂……或许是指的为NGO提供各种物品的公司？

Dr Farmer waves away other explanations for Haiti’s problems, dismissing the “crutch of cultural difference to explain the challenges before Haiti”, as an “old and pernicious tendency”. Yet in a group of essays by other authors that has been included at the end of the book, Leslie Voltaire, Haiti’s envoy to the secretary-general of the UN, is quoted making just such a claim. Because of their history of slavery, he says, “Haitians will do everything to avoid being controlled or dominated, even when you are an equal partner,” which results in “intentional isolation”.

法莫避而不谈海地症结所在；后者因文化差异明显，荆棘满布。却又不溯其根本，只将其解释为“遗留下的旧时恶习”。书中，法莫旁征博引，以莱斯利•伏尔泰一席话为完卷之辞，“回溯海地历史，为人奴隶。如今，定将倾尽一切，永葆独立。却发现，不受操控之日，大概也是被‘孤立’之时吧！”这位海地驻联合国特使如是说。

1．        这一段标点有些小乱，使句子表达不是那么清楚。
2．        “完卷之辞”是结语把？原文中只是在书末引用了伏尔泰的话，并非“完卷之辞”。
3．        Intentional isolation，不是“被”孤立，而是主动孤立比别人。

The book’s narrow view of history leads the author to some dubious conclusions. Dr Farmer insists that foreign aid be channelled primarily through the Haitian state, ignoring valid concerns about its corruption and ineffectiveness. (Only in the footnotes does he concede that the government has “certain inveterate weaknesses”.) That Haiti could eliminate the use of charcoal and become a leading exporter of solar panels by 2015 also seems naively Utopian. Readers would have been better-served if Dr Farmer had focused on “praxis” and left policy to others.

要说海地历史，法莫可谓见识短浅，书中结论之处，有待商榷。其强调，外援口惠而实不至，盖因政府插手，却不知忧虑之处，实为后者贪污腐败，碌碌无为，只在脚注中结论道“政府确实‘疲软’”。其强调，“海地可逐步减少木炭使用，至2015年，跃为太阳能电池板出口第一大国。”实属天方夜谭，想法幼稚。倘若撇开“政策”不谈，专攻“实践”，大概读者会更买账吧！

concede 并非“结论”道

引用 林忆纾 2011-8-1 22:20

回复 11mango 的帖子

在也不翻文言体了

一来功夫蹩脚
二来意思表达含糊
三来急功近利
四来不易于大家阅读
五来少有人帮忙改正
最最关键的，考试时候会大挂啊！！！！

引用 xiaodd888878 2011-8-14 09:51

$21 billion for the loss of its slaves, and America occupied it from 1915-34.
美元二十一亿，赔奴隶之损；后有美国霸占竟二十八年（1915-1934）
应该是210亿吧 ，1915-1934有28年吗？

引用 iam60cemt 2011-8-14 23:46

Other aid NGOs are “trauma vultures” and their contractors “beltway bandits”, both in the grip of Washington’s “powerful”.  
前面那个翻的很对trauma vultures，应该是说这些无政府组织是给灾区人民带来创伤的，但是beltway bandit没很好的翻出来，维基百科上对这个有具体解释：An early use of the term may have been from a description of thieves who took advantage of the newly-constructed Beltway to rob houses from their back yards, which were now exposed to the highway，也就是说，这些签契约的人才是成火打劫的，那些无政府组织仅仅只是带来创伤而已，签契约者只是在这个基础上趁火打劫，而从上下文来看，这个in grip of不应该翻成受制于，翻成听命于会更好

引用 squarrel2009 2011-8-15 23:55

本帖最后由 squarrel2009 于 2011-8-16 03:43 编辑

抛开翻译不论，窃以为文言文与白话文不可嫁接混同使用，文言文节奏感强，铿镪有力，构词严密，而白话文行文随意，节奏感不强。就好比看到一队迈着铿镪有力脚步前行的士兵，突然如泄气皮球般步伐散漫，....不几时又突然士气迸发，脚步有力，随后又复散漫，。。。让读者疲惫不堪，象是呼吸不均患了哮喘病般。建议潜心用词，或通篇文言文，或白话文，才能带来好的阅读体验。

查看全部评论(15)