[2011.08.13] 不要向下看

引用 kingofphysics 2011-8-16 15:55

the IMF reckons， it will be just over 98%:国际货币基金组织估计，它将会超过98%。
Only a quarter of blacks thought it was too high, compared with 55% of whites.对比白人55%的赞成度，只有25%的黑人同意它太高了。这句话译者漏了。

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-16 16:07

弱弱的提个建议 ，General Social Survey 是美国一个专门的社会调查中心，由芝加哥大学的“全国民意研究中心（National Opinion Research Center,NORC）”具体负责实施，属于专有名词，在国内学界统一翻译成美国“综合社会调查（GSS）”。

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-16 16:36

楼主，我是新人，很多地方不懂，想问问这翻译是不是必须忠实原文啊，我发现这网站上有不少文章句子都很忠实原文，而不将它的深层含义或语境译出，

引用 lp17863564 2011-8-16 16:55

a country of immigrants such as America 翻译成像美国一项的一样的移民国家
Social divisions 这个好像是社会贫富差距
很有趣的文章，特别是最后的那个实验调查，道出了一个很不为人知的的社会现象，谢谢楼主的分享。

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-16 17:27

本帖最后由 会跑的树 于 2011-8-16 21:45 编辑

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楼主谦虚了，这文章整体翻译的不错，特别是长句你理的很顺，很佩服，不过美中不足的是可能由于时间关系而对单词和句子的琢磨还差那么点，我举几个例子哈：
1、Instead of opposing redistribution because people expect to make it to the top of the economic ladder, the authors of the new paper argue that people don’t like to be at the bottom.这句话想楼主一样直译固然没错，但会造成理解上的麻烦，其实这句话是后面内容的一个中心句，指一般意义上，我们会认为“人们是因为想要晋级到更高的经济台阶上而反对再分配，而the authors of the new paper 则坚持认为“人们反对再分配是不想自己在经济地位垫底的位子”，作者强调的是the authors of the new paper 这部分。直译则很难将这层意思译出，所以我认为这个句子不直译较好，也正因此我有刚才那么一问。
2、separated by $1 应该是指这笔钱是整数，比如甲可能是10美元整，乙可能是14美元整，而不是楼主指的“都是1美元”，否则后面“above or below them in the distribution”就不成立了。所以这应该指的是“在实验中，学生们都随机的分配得到一定整数额的钱--这笔钱以美元为单位，并被告知分配结果（即让甲知道其他同学分得多少钱）”
3、rewarding the “rich” but ensuring that someone remained poorer than themselves.这里but显然也不能翻译成“但”，but：（literary）used to emphasize that something that is always true.所以这里"but"用指回应并强调上文"last-place aversion"，更往前推则是people don’t like to be at the bottom。but在这确实不好用中文表达，我认为可以不翻译。

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-16 18:45

social divisions是指社会分化，社会分层，作者没翻译错哦。比如labor division是指劳动分工

引用 code 2011-8-17 12:02

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1. 没错,这句话的真正意思是我没翻译出来,没怎么动脑子....所以我的翻译应该也不是直译,就是翻译错了...
2.其实我的意思是他们的钱都是一元的现钞,不是说总金额都是一元...sorry,我的措辞有问题.
3.恩,谢谢指正~

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-17 12:40

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嘿嘿，你翻译的很好啊，特别是长句，表示佩服五体投地

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-17 23:41

我怎么才能涨积分啊？除翻译外，现在我没时间整篇的翻译 想加好友还不成 唉

引用 姜茶 2011-8-18 11:25

这篇文章很难那，我看了好久，再加上中文翻译才搞懂。谢谢楼主的翻译了。否则我肯定看不下去了。

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-18 11:32

OK 我积分够了第一个加你为好友

引用 为止 2011-8-18 14:14

楼主翻的很好，学习了~

引用 iam60cemt 2011-8-18 17:22

本文的最后一个it似乎不应该是所谓的所低工资吧，应该是税率

引用 zss1357 2011-8-18 22:17

拜读完毕…感谢楼主以及楼上几位的辛苦付出

引用 会跑的树 2011-8-18 22:53

引用 join_soon 2011-8-20 14:26

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Economics focus
经济焦点

Don’t look down
不要向下看

The poor like taxing the rich less than you would think
穷人不像你想的那样喜欢富人被征税【穷人不像你想得那样喜欢征富人的税】

Aug 13th 2011 | from the print edition


IN THE 1939 classic Western “Stagecoach”, a villainous banker with a bag of embezzled cash in his lap frets about the state of the American economy: “Our national debt is something shocking!” he complains. That year American public debt was just over two-fifths of GDP. This year, the IMF reckons, it will be just over 98%, rising to over 102% in 2012. Were he still around, the unscrupulous banker might have struggled to express his outrage, although he might have found solace in the fact that America’s August 2nd deal to increase the debt ceiling envisages $2.4 trillion in spending cuts but no tax hikes. This strikes many, both outside the United States and within it, as odd. A Democratic congressman called the debt deal a “sugar-coated Satan sandwich”.
1939年在经典的西部”驿站马车”里, 一个腐败的银行家, 腿上放着一袋子的贪污款, 他对美国经济的现状十分担忧:” 我们国家的债务规模实在太吓人了!” 他抱怨道. 那一年, 美国的公共债务仅仅占到GDP的五分之二. 今年, 国际货币基金组织IMF承认, 美国公共债务的GDP占比达到了98%, 预计2012年将超过102%. 如果他现在还在世的话, 这个无耻的银行家可能会费尽心思的来表达他的愤怒, 尽管8.2号美国的提高债务上限, 开支消减2.4万亿但无税务增加的一揽子计划会给他一丝安慰. 这使得美国国内外一片惊讶. 一位民主党国会议员将这个债务计划称为”糖衣魔鬼三明治”.

It does, however, loosely reflect longstanding differences between Americans’ attitudes to taxation and those in much of the rest of the rich world. America is far less inclined than many of its rich-world peers to use taxation and redistribution to reduce inequality. The OECD, a think-tank, reckons that taxation eats up a little less than 30% of the average American’s total compensation, compared with nearly 50% in Germany and France. America’s top federal income-tax rate of 35% is lower than in many other advanced economies (although most Americans also pay state taxes). Britain’s top tax rate is 50%. Swedes and Danes acquiesce to tax rates that would outrage many Americans: Sweden’s top rate is 57% and Denmark’s is 55%. Unsurprisingly, the American state is also less generous to the poor. Unemployment benefits in the United States replace a smaller share of income, and run out more quickly, than in most European countries.
但是, 这确实隐约反应出了长期以来美国对赋税的态度与其他发达国家中的大部分不同. 美国远不像他许多发达国家的同僚们那样喜欢用赋税和再分配来减少不平等. 智囊团OECD表明, 在平均美国总补贴中, 赋税占比不到30%, 而德国和法国几乎为50%. 美国最高联邦收入税率为35%, 比许多其他发达经济体都低(尽管大部分美国人还要交纳州所得税). 英国的最高税率为50%. 瑞典和丹麦默许的税率会激怒大部分美国人: 瑞典的最高税率为57%, 丹麦的是55%. 不出所料, 美国对待穷人也没那么慷慨. 美国的失业补助比起大部分欧洲国家来说仅占收入的一小部分并且领取的时间短.

The differences in attitude towards redistributive taxes are not just between countries but also within them, and economists have several explanations as to why. When it comes to differences between countries, social cohesion plays a major role. Broadly speaking, countries that are more ethnically or racially homogeneous are more comfortable with the state seeking to mitigate inequality by transferring some resources from richer to poorer people through the fiscal system. This may explain why Swedes complain less about high taxes than the inhabitants of a country of immigrants such as America. But it also suggests that even societies with a tradition of high taxes (such as those in Scandinavia) might find that their citizens would become less willing to finance generous welfare programmes were immigrants to make up a greater share of their populations. Immigration can also subtly alter the overall attitude towards such matters in another way. A 2008 study by economists at Harvard found evidence that immigrants’ attitudes towards taxation and redistribution were rooted in the places they had left.
对再分配的赋税的态度分歧不仅仅存在于国家之间也存在于美国国内, 经济学家们对此也有一些解释. 对于解释国家之间的分歧, 社会凝聚力是主要因素. 宽泛的讲, 多族裔或多种族国家政府更愿意利用资源转移的方式来试图减少不平等, 即在财政系统中将一些资源从富人手中转移到穷人手中. 这也许解释了为什么瑞典人对高税收的抱怨比像美国等国家移民的非居民少. 但是这也表明, 在哪怕是拥有高税收传统的社会(诸如斯堪的纳维亚)中可能会发现, 他们的市民不大愿意对慷慨的社会福利项目进行注资, 而在这些社会中, 移民人口在总人口中占了较大一部分. 移民者们也可以通过其他方法来改变大家针对这种事情的态度. 哈弗经济学家在2008年的一项研究表明移民者对待税收和再分配的观点早在他们未移民前就形成了.

Social divisions also play a role in determining who within a society prefers greater redistributive taxation. In America blacks—who are more likely to benefit from welfare programmes than richer whites—are much more favourably disposed towards redistribution through the fiscal system than white people are. A 2001 study looked at over 20 years of data from America’s General Social Survey and found that whereas 47% of blacks thought welfare spending was too low, only 16% of whites did. Only a quarter of blacks thought it was too high, compared with 55% of whites. In general (though not always), those who identify with a group that benefits from redistribution seem to want more of it.
在决定社会中哪些人更倾向于重新分配税收中, 社会分化也扮演了一定的角色. 在美国, 黑人-在福利项目中比富有的白人获得好处的可能性更大-要比白人更倾向于通过财政系统再分配. 2001年一项基于来源于美国总体社会调查的20年数据的研究表明相对于黑人中有47%的人认为国家对福利支出太少, 白人中仅有16%的人如此认为. 通常情况(尽管还有特例), 那些identify 在一个特定的阶层并从重新分配中获利的人似乎会想要更多的福利.

Paradoxically, as the share of the population that receives benefits in a given area rises, support for welfare in the area falls. A new NBER paper finds evidence for an even more intriguing and provocative hypothesis. Its authors note that those near but not at the bottom of the income distribution are often deeply ambivalent about greater redistribution.
矛盾的是, 当一个特定区域中获得福利待遇的人在总人口的占比上升时, 这一地区对福利的支持会下降. NBER一份新的研究报告提出了一个甚至更耐人寻味并且具有挑畔性的假设. 其作者发现那些接近但是并不处于收入分配最低端的人对更多的再分配有着深深的复杂情绪.

Economists have usually explained poor people’s counter-intuitive disdain for something that might make them better off by invoking income mobility. Joe the Plumber might not be making enough to be affected by proposed hikes in tax rates on those making more than $250,000 a year, they argue, but he hopes some day to be one of them. This theory explains some cross-country differences, but it would also predict increased support for redistribution as income inequality widens. Yet the opposite has happened in America, Britain and other rich countries where inequality has risen over the past 30 years.
经济学家们经常用呼吁收入流动性使他们生活的好些来解释这些穷人的反直觉蔑视情绪. 他们辩驳道, 水暖工Joe可能挣得不够多, 提高对收入每年高于25万美元的人税率的提议不会影响到他, 但是他希望有一天自己也能成为其中一员. 该理论解释了一些全国性的差异, 但是它也预计随着收入不平等现象越来越严重, 对再分配的支持也会越来越多. 然而在美国, 英国和其他富有国家发生的却正好相反, 这些国家在过去30年间不平等现象不断加剧.

Never mind the top, avoid the bottom
上层最好, 底部不要

Instead of opposing redistribution because people expect to make it to the top of the economic ladder, the authors of the new paper argue that people don’t like to be at the bottom. One paradoxical consequence of this “last-place aversion” is that some poor people may be vociferously opposed to the kinds of policies that would actually raise their own income a bit but that might also push those who are poorer than them into comparable or higher positions. The authors ran a series of experiments where students were randomly allotted sums of money, separated by $1, and informed about the “income distribution” that resulted. They were then given another $2, which they could give either to the person directly above or below them in the distribution.
因为人们希望晋级到经济阶梯的上部,而不是反对再分配, 这篇新报告的作者争辩道, 人们不喜欢处于经济阶层的底部. “厌恶最后”的一个矛盾结果是一些穷人可能特别反对某些政策--这些政策只会稍微的提高了他们的收入但是同时也会将那些比自己更穷的人提升至和自己差不多甚至更高的收入水平上. 该作者进行了一些列的实验, 实验中的学生们随即的得到一笔钱, 都是1美元, 并被告知”收入再分配”的结果. 然后他们又被给予了2美元, 这笔钱他们可以直接给予在分配中比自己高或者低的人.

In keeping with the notion of “last-place aversion”, the people who were a spot away from the bottom were the most likely to give the money to the person above them: rewarding the “rich” but ensuring that someone remained poorer than themselves. Those not at risk of becoming the poorest did not seem to mind falling a notch in the distribution of income nearly as much. This idea is backed up by survey data from America collected by Pew, a polling company: those who earned just a bit more than the minimum wage were the most resistant to increasing it.
参与者们保持着”厌恶最后”感, 那些处于次差的人们更愿意将钱给予比自己收入高的人: 奖励”富人”, 但是要保证还有人比自己更穷. 那些没有成为最穷风险的人似乎不介意自己在收入分配中降一个等级. 民意调研公司Pew在美国获得的调研数据支持了这一结论: 那些工资稍微比最低工资高一点的人最抵触提高最低工资.

Poverty may be miserable. But being able to feel a bit better-off than someone else makes it a bit more bearable.
贫困可能很悲催. 但是只要感觉还有人比自己差就能继续忍受.

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