[2011.11.19] 纽特的麻烦

引用 林木木 2011-11-23 08:23

谢谢分享，学到很多
Speaker of the House, no less, and architect of the Republican resurgence of the mid-1990s.
和凯因不同，他曾经是个严肃的政治家，不是说笑，他曾是众议院议长，一手组织了90年代中期的共和党复兴。
我查了下字典：
no less (not comparable)
Even, furthermore, not to mention. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no_less
试译：和凯因不同，他曾经是个严肃的政治家，甚至一手组织了90年代中期的共和党复兴。

尽管这样，金里奇的崛起本也是可能极低的。
可能性也是极低的

by generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates
通过电视直播辩论产生新的点子，提出重大议题。
通过电视直播辩论中提出新的点子和重大议题。
“产生”有点不合适

一旦这些丑事重见天日（相信我，它们迟早会被抖出来的），
重见天日：用来指含冤者得到昭雪。也可比喻某些被关闭的东西重新开放。一般作谓语、宾语。
试译：一旦这些丑事被抖落出来（相信我，这是迟早的），

要细数这些骷髅首先我们可以从人品开始谈，

At the same time as he was conducting a secret affair of his own he was pressing for the impeachment of Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair
要知道，莫妮卡·莱温斯基事件时，他在极力逼迫对比尔·克林顿进行弹劾的同时自己却在搞地下婚外恋
要知道，他在搞地下婚外情时，可还在就莫妮卡·莱温斯基事件对对比尔·克林顿进行弹劾呢


Unless they are feeling particularly suicidal
除非共和党人有很强的自毁倾向，
个人感觉是，除非共和党感到金里奇会令他们一败涂地，否则是不会换下他的

引用 handsome2011 2011-11-23 12:45

学习。

引用 nanoandy 2011-11-23 20:20

不错，还有介绍

引用 BTnuts 2011-11-23 20:32

And although nobody can accuse him of wearing his learning lightly, he does at least have a goodly amount of it
wear one's learning lightly 是“不卖弄学识”的意思。
出处：学识就像怀表，只需放在口袋里，不必拿出来炫耀，只要让人知道你有表就行了。假如别人问你时间，你就拿出来看看，然后告诉他；若没有人问起，就不要像个卖表人那样不断拿出来报时。（Wear your learning, like your watch, in a private pocket: and do not pull it out and strike it; merely to show that you have one. If you are asked what o’clock it is, tell it; but do not proclaim it hourly and unasked, like the watchman.）
而且如果是“卖弄学识”的意思的话，原句就不能像你那么翻译了。应该翻成“虽然没人能够批判牛金贵爱卖弄学识（卖弄学识不是错）”。

个人见解。

引用 emilyily 2011-11-23 23:54

the shrewd elder statesman
精明长者
用 精明资深的政治家 怎么样
“长者”有点别扭

引用 nayilus 2011-11-24 03:10

回复 林木木 的帖子

木木，这次的点评我有几点不同意见：

Speaker of the House, no less, and architect of the Republican resurgence of the mid-1990s.
这里要注意and的位置，no less是修饰Speaker of the House的，no less 出现在句子中确实有你说的意思，但是要注意如果它单独被逗号隔出来，像上句，则意思又有点不一样。这是一种很口语的用法，如果你要说什么让人感到难以置信的话时加在后面作强调，大致是"他曾是议长哦，不骗你，绝对不是比议长低"，我一般爱翻成“不是说笑”，“不骗你”

by generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates
如果是提出新点子，就会变成
by raising ideas and big issues in the televised debates
这里我觉得意思不是在辩论中提出点子，而是通过辩论大家的讨论为自己的选战想新的点子。所以用了“产生”，或者用“激发”更好？

一旦这些丑事被抖落出来
和
克林顿那句很好，特别是克林顿那句，我一直组织不好。你这么一来就清楚了

最后一句这儿suicidal是自毁，自杀，就是说选金里奇无异于自毁，我反复读了你的建议，发现理解意思是一样的，但是语气不同，例如
除非共和党故意想要一败涂地，否则应该换下他
除非共和党感到金里奇会令他们一败涂地，否则是不会换下他的
这两句意思差得不大，但是我觉得前一句语气更决绝，即除了换下他没有其它途径，后一句集中在共和党的感觉，而不是金里奇的好坏上，原文意思应该是第一层，我的译文也就按照原文走了

引用 aubreychen 2011-11-24 03:46

刚才的帖子被我删去了，因为感觉逻辑不清楚，所以重新写，但是怎么想improbable这里的意思也不能是不可能。
And yet the rise of Mr Gingrich is also improbable. It is improbable, first, in that his campaign got off to such a terrible start that his resurrection at this late stage, just in time for the Iowa caucuses in January, is a minor psephological miracle. In June he suffered what should have been a devastating blow when much of his campaign staff resigned en masse, allegedly in protest at his decision to cruise the Greek islands with his third wife, Callista, instead of raising money and pressing the flesh in Iowa and New Hampshire. He put a brave face on this setback, claiming that he knew how to campaign in a new way, by generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates. Unlikely as it seemed at the time, this strategy has now been vindicated: chapeau!

文章第一段不是已经说了小G现在的竞争榜上名列前茅了么。这段说improbable的第一个原因是，开始低迷但是后来及时的resurrection简直是奇迹，段落的后面就是解释为什么是奇迹，所以这段的结论应该是，从这个角度看，虽然看似improbable，但是实际上这个rise of G是probable的，否定了前面的推论。。

下一段的另一个原因才是让人真正感到improbable的，并且作者因此推出了本文最终的结论，共和党的提名候选人不会是小金子。

所以我觉得这里improbable的意思更接近于：让人感到不可思议的、让人费解的、让人意想不到的这类意思吧。。

不一定对，欢迎讨论

引用 aubreychen 2011-11-24 06:55

本帖最后由 aubreychen 于 2011-11-24 06:55 编辑

恩，我觉得这里也可以考虑换一个角度把作者的意思表达出来。

我说的只是一个想法，我也没觉得比你原来的翻译好，你说如果在这里你翻译成不可能所带来的效果，这种感情色彩也是作者想表达的，不必拘泥原文的不可能，或者是本不可能。就翻译成让人诧异，诧异的原因之一是~~~

引用 nayilus 2011-11-24 07:04

回复 aubreychen 的帖子

这里大概提一下possible和probable的区别

possible是可能发生，probable是很可能发生，中文没有这种用法，只好这么着翻了。

反过来就不同了

impossible是绝不可能发生，improbable是可能发生的几率很小，再一次，中文无法清楚表达，所以原文作者的意思是很清楚的，也没有引申义，只是怎么翻译很让人痛苦。

引用 林木木 2011-11-24 07:28

本帖最后由 林木木 于 2011-11-24 07:29 编辑

回复 nayilus 的帖子

这么详细的讲解啊，拜谢~
都清楚了呢，是我没想那么深，嘿嘿
再谢~

引用 BTnuts 2011-11-24 22:04

为什么accuse是“赞扬”的意思？你从哪里看得出来是作者在用反语呢？即使一篇文章中一个词是反语的话翻译出来也应该是它原来的意思，只不过通过一种夸张对比让读者自己领会到其中的反讽作用。怎么会有人用反语直接就把词语的愿意改了呢？那不是拆自己台么？

引用 nayilus 2011-11-25 04:49

本帖最后由 nayilus 于 2011-11-24 22:23 编辑

回复 BTnuts 的帖子

我不知道反语这个说法是否恰当，我的意思是

wear one's learning lightly是不炫耀学问，谦虚的意思，所以是正面的

那么Noboday can accuse him of wearing his learning lightly直译就是”没人可以谴责他谦虚“
或者是”他其实很爱卖弄学问“

因为wearing his learning lightly是好的，所以accuse在这里其实不是谴责的意思，仅仅是说他怎么样怎么样的意思，是一个讽刺。

见14楼后补充：

这里按陈老师的指点，accuse him of wear his learning lightly可以理解为谴责他有学问却不外露，虽然意思还是”他其实很爱卖弄学问“，但是这里accuse可以做谴责讲，关键是西方文化认为有学识不显露也是种罪过。

引用 yannanchen 2011-11-25 10:23

本帖最后由 yannanchen 于 2011-11-25 17:12 编辑

Wear one’s learning lightly---原意是学问大但是不露相， 类似中国人（中文里）的高人不露相。 有时在一定的上下文里， 转义为有学问故意不表露， 或者假谦虚。在西人眼光里， 有学问就得表露，在更多的情况下，这才是正常的表现， 值得提倡。 反之， 就应当受谴责。 因为虚伪。 这个有瑞士表不表露不一样。（这跟有瑞士表不表露不一样）
Nobody will ever accuse of someone of wearing his leaning lightly. 在这种场合就是说： 没有人会怪他假谦虚。 实际上这是一个understatement： 说的就是他有学问， 也爱表露。
以下三个例子，备考。



Persistent hectoring about languages, yet more bragging: Nobody will ever accuse Clive James of wearing his learning lightly. Throughout the book, almost to a comic extent (almost), James tells us what a toiler he has been in making himself an intellectual. The tales are legion of him sweating over some beautifully-printed tome in the original German, French, Italian, Spanish, Japanese (!), Russian while seated at a café, usually the Copper Kettle (which is at Cambridge – as he’s quick to remind you) or some exotic locale during his extensive travels and TV documentary shoots. Each time this scene is set, he then tells the reader that he really should learn the language of the original work. Yes, as a monoglot, I feel ashamed and guilty about my lack of industry and application to make myself learn a foreign language. But really, I am not so sure James should have taken a more holistic approach to his belief in knowing other languages – when I read T. S. Eliot on his favorite French poets, I get this real feeling of missing out on something great, and never once does Eliot beard me for being a clodhopper. James, on the other hand, comes across a scold, and his “untranslatable beauties of the German (or French or Italian) tongue” mini lectures are off-the-shelf, the kind of stuff you read in Learn French in 30 Days ads in the New Yorker.
http://www.betterworldbooks.com/ ... -id-039333354X.aspx

Erudition
Nobody could ever accuse Beckett of wearing his learning lightly. Where Joyce was an unabashed pilferer and pillager of ideas and arguments, Beckett wrapped his allusions up in an air of patrician mystery. Where Joyce’s writing honestly invokes and encourages the ingenuity of the crossword-solver, at one point even invoking the name of Beckett in his encouragements to the perplexed reader – ‘Bethicket me for a stump of a beech if I have the poultriest notion what the farest it all means’ – Beckett’s erudition is intended to mock and lock out ‘the great crossword public’ (Beckett 1983, 92).
http://www.bbk.ac.uk/english/skc/loutishness/

In both settings, Irving is truculent, dogmatic and defiant. He
is an iconoclast, consciously challenging the consensus on the
great
crime of the 20th century. His aim is to shock, to set the record
straight as he sees it. "I don't mind being disliked," he says.
"I
don't think it's my job to be liked."

Even his bitterest critics acknowledge his encyclopedic grasp of
the minutiae of the Third Reich. He has done his homework.
Last summer, the "New York Times" quoted a leading British
military historian, John Kegan, as saying Irving "knows more than
anyone alive about the German side of the Second World War."

No one has ever accused Irving of wearing his learning lightly.
What historians increasingly question, however, is the use he
makes of his material, the conclusions he draws, above all his
disdain for the testimony of Holocaust survivors and other
witnesses that might undermine his thesis.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/pe ... ress_Summary.000228

引用 aubreychen 2011-11-25 11:21

来复习前两天读过的文章
generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates
激发新的竞选点子
---------------
这个怎么变成激发竞选点子了？不对吧

引用 BTnuts 2011-11-25 19:11

嗯。心服口服。我有点毛躁了。还是对西方文化不了解，不知道accuse sb of wearing his learning lightly是一种norm.

引用 yannanchen 2011-11-25 21:19

alight on one of the last remaining contenders.落在名单上剩下的最后一个竞选者上。

似乎还可以精确些。 因为alight on one of the last remaining contenders 不等于alight on the last remaining contender

引用 yannanchen 2011-11-25 21:33

本帖最后由 yannanchen 于 2011-11-25 21:34 编辑

a bit of a star, albeit a dark one, sneering contemptuously at the “absurd” gotcha questions posed by the journalists他在最近的辩论中表现颇有明星样（虽然是个有点性格缺陷的明星）。他对记者问出的那些“无稽”的要命问题[注2]表示非常不屑

评论： dark star 是不是有点性格缺陷的明星？ 待考。原文用这个词，背后的解释是他会sneering contemptuously at the “absurd” gotcha questions posed by the journalists
对记者刁钻刁难问题表示不屑就是有性格缺陷？
我查了一下dark star 有以下几种原意， 不知哪个可以对上

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star

AstronomyDark star (Newtonian mechanics), a star that has a gravitational pull strong enough to trap light under Newtonian gravity
Dark star (dark matter), a star heated by annihilation of dark matter particles within it
Dark energy star, an object composed of dark energy that outwardly resembles a black hole
[edit] Media and entertainment[edit] FilmDark Star (film), a 1974 science fiction movie directed by John Carpenter
The Dark Star, a 1919 film starring Marion Davies
Dark Star, a 1978 film distributed by David Grant
[edit] LiteratureComics
Darkstar (comics), a Marvel Comics superhero
Darkstars, a DC Comics superhero team
Darkstar Comics, a fictional comic book company in the TV series Spaced
Dark Star, an issue of the comics series The Transformers
Other
Dark Star, a novelization of the 1974 film, by Alan Dean Foster
Dark Star, a Night Soldiers novel by Alan Furst
Dark Star, a novel by Lorna Moon; basis for the 1930 film Min and Bill
Dark Star: The Roy Orbison Story, by Ellis Amburn
Darkstar, a novella by Christopher R. Howard

引用 yannanchen 2011-11-25 21:49

可能性的顺序似乎是从小（左边）到大（右边）
possible, probable, likely, （proved）
不可能性的顺序似乎是从小（左边）到大（右边）
unlikely, improbable, impossible, （disproved）
翻译成中文是痛苦的。 中文不够精确？？？


http://www.americanancestors.org ... addock-of-yarmouth/
In the compilation of any circumstantial case, terms such as possible, probable, and likely are often used.  Researchers preparing a case need to be aware of the subtleties among these terms.  By definition, no circumstantial case is proved, since it is the lack of hard documentation that makes it circumstantial.  

In a circumstantial case, one first needs to show that something is not “impossible.” From there it is often fairly easy to show that something is possible – that it could have happened.  The next step is to demonstrate through a reconstruction of all findable facts and associations that something probably happened – that it is more likely than not to be correct.  This last step is the hardest to achieve because all circumstantial cases are subjective, and what one genealogist might accept, another is just as likely to debate.

引用 yannanchen 2011-11-25 22:03

He put a brave face on this setback, claiming that he knew how to campaign in a new way, by generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates. Unlikely as it seemed at the time, this strategy has now been vindicated: chapeau!在当时看上去这可不是什么好策略
评论： 好策略？ 还可以精确些。 unlikely as it seemed at the time = although this strategy (a new campaign way, of generating ideas and raising big issues in the televised debates) seemed unlikely at the time to resurrect him,

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