[2012.04.04] 反格林而行

引用 penguinn 2012-4-6 01:02

good.

引用 yannanchen 2012-4-6 04:29

本帖最后由 yannanchen 于 2012-4-6 04:39 编辑

What modern mother hasn’t cringed at the pink and passive fairy tale princesses served up to her impressionable girl?

给缺乏判断力的小女儿讲述那些带着女孩子气的消极老派童话，相信很多思想现代的母亲都曾体验过这么做带来的不快感

grammatical analysis:

what modern mother has not cringed at the princesses?----this is main structure.

a long string of words is used as a pre-modifier of princesses----pink and passive fairy tale (princesses)---or pink and passive princesses of the fairy tales.    yes, these princesses described in the fairy tales are all pink-faced, and are all passive.

served up to her impressionable girl---this is post-modifier for the same princesses---these princessess have been used to entertain (or shall we say, educate?) the modern mother's gullible girl, as if they were food purchased for and brought to her.

the original chinese translation seems to have ignored this structure, for all I know.

引用 yannanchen 2012-4-6 05:11

These tales, only of few of which were published in the 1850s, were collected in the Upper Palatinate region of Germany

I suspect a typo here: only of few   probably  should have been only a few.  Can you check the original?

引用 yannanchen 2012-4-6 07:47

本帖最后由 yannanchen 于 2012-4-6 07:53 编辑

and claims her prince最终救下了她的王子。

童话里往往是 嫁给他了， 这里可以 译作 讨他做老公。

claim sb 把。。。给弄到手

引用 yannanchen 2012-4-6 07:48

authenticity正统性？
真实性

引用 je331ca 2012-4-6 09:31

回复 nayilus 的帖子

版主，我感觉下面这句话好像缺主语... ...
What modern mother hasn’t cringed at the pink and passive fairy tale princesses served up to her impressionable girl?
给缺乏判断力的小女儿讲述那些带着女孩子气的消极老派童话，相信很多思想现代的母亲都曾体验过这么做带来的不快感。
您看这个句式可以吗？
现如今，面对那些专为天真小女孩提供的（这里的pink没想好怎么译=D=）消极童话，没有哪个母亲不曾感到畏缩（这个词也不好=U=)。

Nearly all collections, especially the Grimms, were edited to reflect the morals of the day, she says. Schönwerth’s, by contrast, are “raw, not cooked.”
她指出现存几乎所有的童话集，尤其是格林童话，都被经过编辑修改来反映当时的道德观念。相比之下，希昂韦斯的童话“未经任何加工处理。”

现存几乎所有的：是不是“几乎所有现存的”更顺一点，我感觉具体的修饰应该紧贴名词，所以把“现存”放后面了^^
都被经过编辑修改：“被经过”，好像读着有点点别扭...“都精力修改以反映当时的道德观”就可以吧？

“There’s hardly any sign of all the pretty little princesses, and not a trace of the scolding lifted finger.”
而且完全没有举起手指责骂的情节。”
举起手指责骂：^^我一开始看成了“举起手 指责骂”，貌似斑竹是要说“举起手指 责骂”。这里我想把scolding lifted finger译成“点着鼻子责骂”（或者“指指点点责骂”？）

An English edition will be our reward
该童话集的一本英语版将会面试，
Typo啊^^，“面市”

仔细看了半天就发现这几点疑问（顺便一说我觉得斑竹的“反格林而行”译的特别好^^），如有理解不正确之处，还请斑竹指点啦

引用 nayilus 2012-4-7 01:21

回复 yannanchen 的帖子

Because Chinese has difficulty accommodating long and winding modifier, I had to paraphrase it.

Yes, the mothers cringe at the princesses, not fairy tales. My mistake. I have splitted the sentence into two for more clarity.

serve up princesses to
is paraphrased to
provide princess tales to
The meaning does not change

what modern mother has not cringed at the princesses?
this is a rhetorical question, so paraphrased to
many modern mother has cringed at the princesses

引用 yannanchen 2012-4-7 01:57

What modern mother hasn’t cringed at the pink and passive fairy tale princesses served up to her impressionable girl? 很多母亲都有给天真无邪的小女儿讲述童话的经历。对于思想现代的母亲来说，童话中那些粉红色的消极公主一定曾让她们觉得不快感。
Pink 请看插图的公主的脸。
我来试试：
现代母亲，如果看到她天真敏感的女娃读的都是些童话里脸色绯红听任摆布的公主， 谁个不会吃惊犯愁？

引用 je331ca 2012-4-7 13:46

本帖最后由 je331ca 于 2012-4-7 13:50 编辑

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What modern mother hasn’t cringed at the pink and passive fairy tale princesses served up to her impressionable girl?

grammatical analysis:
what modern mother has not cringed at the princesses?----this is main structure.
a long string of words is used as a pre-modifier of princesses----pink and passive fairy tale (princesses)---or pink and passive princesses of the fairy tales.    yes, these princesses described in the fairy tales are all pink-faced, and are all passive.
served up to her impressionable girl---this is post-modifier for the same princesses---these princessess have been used to entertain (or shall we say, educate?) the modern mother's gullible girl, as if they were food purchased for and brought to her.

the original chinese translation seems to have ignored this structure, for all I know.

原来结构是这样子的，一直没看明白，谢谢您，学习了^^

引用 contrary 2012-4-7 21:17

The Disney versions of Snow White and Cinderella, Belle and Rapunzel are heroines of such vapid foolishness one wonders how they survived into the 21st century.
迪士尼的白雪公主、灰姑娘、贝尔和长发姑娘这些女主人公身上都带着一种毫无生气的愚蠢，不禁让人奇怪这些人物怎么会幸存到21世纪的。
vapid foolishness vapid我理解是枯燥、无味，即这些角色都千篇一律的愚蠢；后半句这样说会不会好些：不禁让人奇怪为何到21世纪还会有人喜欢这些角色。

the 19th century social world they portray so unremittingly sexist
19世纪社会是极度性别歧视的
unremittingly 是极度？不是说性别歧视一直存在么？

oral tales  口头传述的故事
口耳相传的故事

beautiful persecuted heroines 美丽受害的女主人公
美丽受害这样叠放有点怪，受害的美女主人公

There’s hardly any sign of all the pretty little princesses
在希昂韦斯的童话中几乎找不到漂亮小公主的迹象
似乎不宜用迹象，踪影？

引用 GWERS 2012-4-8 13:54

小时候很喜欢看的

引用 悠悠万事97 2012-4-8 14:05

回复 nayilus 的帖子

against reading them to children at all. 不要让孩子读格林童话。
是不是“不给孩子读格林童话”啊？因此考虑这是不是对那些特别小的、还没有阅读能力的孩子而言的？

第三自然段：Brothers Grimm格林兄弟的童话
第一自然段同样的Brothers Grimm译为“格林童话”。建议统一。

to let a repellent toad into her bed. 让一只她觉得很恶心的青蛙睡在自己的床上。
奇怪的是，为什么原文是toad？那是癞蛤蟆，但前面说的又是frog。

Grabbing a sword, 手握宝剑，
感觉更像是“抢下了一口宝剑”

After his book of folk sayings and legends, including a few fairy tales, was published in 1857, Jacob Grimm himself praised the Bavarian’s他在1857年出版了一本收集了民间谚语、传说的书籍，其中包括了几则童话。雅各布•格林曾对他大加赞赏，称赞这位巴伐利亚人
After和himself似乎应该强调一下

What the discovery makes clear is the degree to which this revered Western canon is a social construct. 这项发现表明这本倍受尊崇的西方正典很大程度上是一个社会产物。
这项发现清楚地让人看到，这一倍受尊崇的西方正典在多大程度上是社会的产物。

“apparent inner drive to incriminate females.” “明显致力于给女性定罪”
“明显的给女性定罪的心理动因”？

“Women are consistently punished for haughtiness, as children are for disobedience and curiosity.”  。“女性一直因为傲慢而受到惩罚，而孩子则因为不听话或是好奇而受到惩罚。”
“如同孩子则因为不听话或是好奇而受到惩罚一样，女性则一直因为傲慢而受到惩罚。”？

edited by Ms Tatar, 塔塔尔所著，
由塔塔尔编辑，

引用 nayilus 2012-4-10 01:58

悠悠万事97 发表于 2012-4-7 22:05
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against reading them to children at all. 不要让孩子读格林童话。

这篇错处很多啊，多谢汤兄指出。

toad那个因为故事题目是青蛙王子，所以就译为青蛙，因为是童话，所以这两个词在这里应该不做细节区分。

inner drive to do sth.
感觉像是“证明作者内心有一种动力要做什么……”
和“证明作者做什么……的内心动机是什么”
读起来感觉似乎不一样，这里觉得还是应该按前面的译。

引用 放晴的兔子 2012-4-11 15:42

what is most striking is their authenticity.  striking 可以翻译成最出彩而非最惊人吗

We meet here the male counterpart of the badly behaved princess（骄横任性的公主） in the Grimms’ Frog King, ，可以译成  在S笔下，相似的故事却发生在了一个男孩身上，吗

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