[2012.11.17] 去外面打

引用 敛刃 2012-11-20 14:59

小意见：

小标题“真得可以打破”
真的

True, the president enjoys vast formal powers
当然，总统名义上有着巨大的权力
True 在这里表示让步（引出下文的“但是美国总统这一天字第一号讲坛[注1]还是有其局限性”），可译为“的确”

Judged by those stern rules, Mr Obama’s path to success is narrow.
根据这些条件来看，奥巴马想要获得成功的赢面很窄。
stern 没译

Immigration may be another issue ready to outgrow existing partisan boundaries.
移民可能是另一个已经不只局限于两党边界线内的议题。
移民可能是另一个将不再成为两党之间障碍的议题。

引用 雷姐 2012-11-21 14:16

引用 shuhuifen 2012-11-22 09:08

morning fresh!

引用 林木木 2012-11-22 09:20

本帖最后由 林木木 于 2012-11-22 10:17 编辑

Congress must believe that the president has correctly estimated how his own supporters view the policy, and how their supporters will view them if they do what he wants.
国会议员必须相信总统对于其自身支持者对该政策的看法、以及议员的支持者对该政策的看法有正确的估计
后一句的意思是不是：一旦他们妥协，那么己方支持者对他们所持的看法，也能得到总统的准确判断

ruthlessness to reward or punish them
且能不择手段地对他们施加奖励或惩罚？
公正的、不偏不倚的怎么样？

即公众对于总统的意愿并不领情。
不领情是不是指对于xx的好意？
违背总统意愿？

西奥多·罗斯福（Theodore Roosevelt）是此道高手
精于此道，个中高手

话说小标题突然让我想起小时候孩子们总说的一句话，让你欺负我，我告我妈去

引用 xuexue34 2012-11-22 13:01

“当国会被对手控制时。。”这里的opposition应该理解成反对党吧？

引用 tanwei1028 2012-11-22 13:31

public opinion helped Bill Clinton balance the budget with Republican help
比尔·克林顿（Bill Clinton）再次凭借舆论帮助和共和党的失算成功平衡预算
感觉后面部分有点乱
比尔克林顿再次凭借舆论在共和党的帮助下（或和共和党一起）平衡了预算

引用 BearDY 2012-11-23 13:22

我也是看木有人选，就翻了。。。真是愧疚

引用 gangangwen 2012-12-10 10:23

Lexington
列克星敦
Taking the fight outside
去外面打

Can presidential appeals to the American public break Washington gridlock?
总统向美国国民呼吁真的可以打破华盛顿的僵局吗？

SURPRISINGLY often, an American president can act only by appealing to the self-interest of others. Sharing power with a Congress whose members he does not recruit or dismiss, and perched atop a political party that he does not control, America’s president is as much bargainer-in-chief as chief executive. True, the president enjoys vast formal powers, including rights of patronage and a legislative veto. When Congress is in the opposition’s hands, the president can take arguments to the public and expect a hearing. Yet the presidential bully pulpit has its limits. It is a perch from which to cajole, more than a place for issuing orders. As Harry Truman ruefully described the job: “I sit here all day trying to persuade people to do the things they ought to have sense enough to do without my persuading them.”
美国总统很多时候其实只能用利益来说服其他人，而且这样的情况频繁得惊人。他和国会分享着权力，且既不能委任也无法卸职国会议员；他身居自己的政党顶端，却对党内事务毫无控制权。与其说美国总统是国家的首席执行官，倒不如说他是个首席谈判官。的确，总统名义上有着巨大的权力，他有权力委任肥缺职务，在立法上具有否决权。当国会被对手控制时，总统可以把自己的观点向大众叙述，并能够获得国会听证。但是美国总统这一天字第一号讲坛还是有其局限性。身在其位的总统很多时候并不是在发号施令，而是在劝诱说服。正如哈里·杜鲁门（Harry Truman）愤愤不平地描述过这份工作：“我成天把时间花在说服人们去做那些他们本应不需要我来说服就自己清楚该做的事。”

“他和国会分享着权力，且既不能委任也无法卸职国会议员”
“且”显得累赘了，建议删去

“天字第一号讲坛”
文章第一次出现这类专有名词时，建议加引号

President Barack Obama—only the second Democrat to win re-election to the White House since Truman—seems to have come to a similar view of his role. A big bet underpinning his second term involves persuading (some) Republicans that their self-interest lies in helping him govern, after years of obstruction.
巴拉克·奥巴马（Barack Obama）总统身为杜鲁门之后第二位赢得连任的民主党人似乎对总统一职持有同样观点。他的第二任期有很大一部分成败都将取决于能否在共和党人多年阻挠后说服（某些）共和党人，让他们意识到帮助奥巴马执政会对自身有利。

“赢得连任的民主党人”后加逗号

The president has cited areas in which bargains may be possible, though “messy”. One involves what he calls a balanced deficit-reduction deal, involving spending cuts but heavier taxation of the wealthy. Another involves infrastructure investments. After Mitt Romney’s dire showing with Hispanic voters, Mr Obama also argues that Republicans have a “deep interest” in immigration reform.
奥巴马已经找出一些双方也许可以达成协议的方面，尽管这些协议可能会非常“杂乱”。他称其中之一为减赤协议，包括政府削减开支，同时对富人加税。基础设施投资也是双方可能达成共识的一个方面。米特·罗姆尼（Mitt Romney）在拉丁裔选民中表现糟糕之后，奥巴马也提出移民改革符合共和党人的“切身利益”。

“一些双方也许可以达成协议的方面”
“方面”在译文中显得不够通顺，建议改为“内容”

“这些协议”
这里messy的修饰对象应是area，而非bargains

“达成共识的一个方面”，“方面”同理

“切身利益”
这里的主干结构是have an interest in something，在这个结构中interest一般不作“利益”解，并且作“利益”解时一般取复数或不可数。建议译为“基本主张”

For months Obama advisers have argued that his big first-term blunder was trying to reason with congressional Republicans behind closed doors. Democrats in Congress suggest that a second-term goal should be to pick fights that split moderate Republicans from hardliners. To that end, he will head outside Washington, making his case to voters, pressure groups and business leaders until public opinion makes opponents see sense.
几个月以来奥巴马的顾问一直提出奥巴马第一任期的巨大失误是在于他试图通过和共和党议员进行私下会议来说服对方。民主党议员现在认为奥巴马在第二任期内的目标应该是把温和共和党人和强硬共和党人分而化之。要做到这一点，他必须离开华盛顿，向选民、倡议团体和商界领导人阐述其政见，直到公众舆论迫使共和党对手觉悟。

“几个月以来”后加逗号

“巨大失误”后加逗号

“现在认为”后加逗号

“觉悟”前加“有所”

The rush for the bully pulpit began on election night, as Mr Obama told supporters that the work of citizenship does not end with voting. Three days later, Mr Obama stood in the White House—a campaign-worthy backdrop of multi-ethnic, multi-generational voters behind him—and declared that most Americans wanted Congress to agree a deal and avert a year-end budget crisis. Waving the pen with which he would sign that deal, Mr Obama insisted that voters had said “loud and clear” that they would not tolerate political dysfunction. Aides briefed that Mr Obama’s formidable campaign machine from 2012 is not being dismantled, but will be left to hum and whirr in case his grassroots need summoning. Union leaders who met the president on November 13th emerged vowing to remain “mobilised”.
动用天字第一号讲坛的行动在大选日当晚即告展开，当晚奥巴马对一群支持者讲话时提到公民职责并不仅止于投票。三天之后，奥巴马在白宫讲话，台下的大量选民来自多个种族、年龄有老有少，其阵势丝毫不亚于竞选拉票活动。他在讲话中提到大多数美国人希望国会能达成协议，避免年底的预算危机发生。轻摇手中那支将会用来签订该协议的笔，奥巴马强调选民已经“很清楚、很响亮”地表达了他们不会容忍政治机能失常。他的助手们也提到2012年奥巴马那令人敬畏的竞选组织不会解散，而会继续运作，在需要时可用来召集支持奥巴马的基层组织。11月13日和总统会晤的工会领导人们在会后都誓言会保持在“动员状态”。

“公民职责”
感觉“职责”有些言重了，建议译为“这并不代表公民的任务结束了”

“台下的大量选民来自多个种族、年龄有老有少”，顿号改为逗号

“誓言会保持在‘动员状态’”
从汉语连贯性角度考虑，“保持”前加“时刻”，“在”删去

Bully-pulpitry can work. Televised appeals to the nation helped Ronald Reagan prod a Democratic-controlled Congress into agreeing historic tax cuts. As he urged voters to hound members of Congress with telegrams and phone calls, Reagan reputedly told aides: “When you can’t make them see the light, make them feel the heat.” More than a decade on, public opinion helped Bill Clinton balance the budget with Republican help: conservatives were on the back foot after Mr Clinton convinced voters that congressional Republicans had overreached by shutting down the federal government in an earlier stand-off.
天字第一号讲坛确实可以生效。罗纳德·里根（Ronald Reagan）在电视上向全国观众的呼吁最终迫使民主党控制的国会同意实施历史性的减税。里根呼吁选民不断用电报和电话纠缠国会议员，据说他当时曾对助手这么说：“如果你没办法说服他们，那就设法对他们施压”。十多年后，比尔·克林顿（Bill Clinton）再次凭借舆论帮助和共和党的失算成功平衡预算：当时克林顿让很多选民相信共和党议员在之前的对峙中关闭联邦政府做得过分了，这一招打得保守派措手不及。

“向全国观众的呼吁”后加逗号

“和共和党的失算”
译文句子不太通顺。建议用括号插入解释“（这下共和党失算了）”

“让很多选民相信”后加逗号

“关闭联邦政府”
shut down: to prevent an opposing team or player from playing well or getting points，建议译为“干扰”

Yet failures abound too. After Mr Clinton’s presidency was soured by scandals and sidetracked by a failed health-care reform, he was mocked for taking to the road to pitch footling policies about school uniforms and teen curfews. In contrast George W. Bush began his second term with an over-ambitious campaign to sell partial Social Security privatisation to the country.
但是也有很多使用天字第一号讲坛不当的例子。克林顿任期在丑闻下变质，受失败的医疗改革所累的时候，他呼吁选民讨论一些微不足道的小问题（如学校校服和青少年宵禁）招到多方嘲笑。另一方面，小布什（George W. Bush）在第二任期开始时则试图向选民兜售一个过于野心勃勃的社会保障私有化计划，最终也以失败告终。

“最终也以失败告终”
over-ambitious表达出来的含义，应是“可能”会失败；或者事情本身不错，但时机不对；或者还有其他可能的情况。直接译为“最终也以失败告终”太过强调结果上的不成功，over-ambitious这个词本身是一个贬义褒说的词，贬义的点不在于其后的内容错误，或者结果一定失败；而在于“目前”这个内容不合时宜，将来施行的过程将会非常曲折。在译文中，通过“过于野心勃勃”和“试图”两个词，足以表达出这个轻度贬义了。建议删去“最终也以失败告终”

A shrewd scholar of presidential power, Richard Neustadt, spent years pondering the conditions that a president must fulfil to mount the bully pulpit and prosper. It is a long list. The policy at stake must merit his personal intervention. Members of Congress must believe that the president has correctly estimated how his own supporters view the policy, and how their supporters will view them if they do what he wants. Finally, there is what might be termed the Machiavelli test: do those around the president believe he has the political skill and ruthlessness to reward or punish them? Fail to meet any of those conditions and a disaster looms: public defiance of a president’s wishes.
理查德·纽斯塔德（Richard Neustadt）是一位眼光独到的学者，专门研究美国总统的权力。他曾花数年时间研究总统利用天字第一号讲坛获得成功必须满足的先决条件，并总结出了一份很长的清单。首先，讨论的政策重要性必须值得总统亲力亲为争取。其次，国会议员必须相信总统对于其自身支持者对该政策的看法、以及议员的支持者对该政策的看法有正确的估计。第三个条件可以被称为权术条件：总统身边的人是否相信总统具有政治技巧，且能不择手段地对他们施加奖励或惩罚？这些条件中任何一个如果不能满足，那在前方等待的就只有灾难——即公众对于总统的意愿并不领情。

“先决条件”
conditions作fulfil的宾语，fulfil a condition中condition不再表示situations，而是agreement的意思，这个影响了原译“首先”内容的理解。关于这个conditions的翻译，应当参考下面三个内容，所选用的词汇应当可以概括这三个内容。试译“他长期思考了总统成功稳固政权所必须建立的诸多政治互信”

“讨论的政策重要性必须值得总统亲力亲为争取”
merit直译为“值得”看不懂，此处应有demand的意思。policy at stake应有standoff的意思。试译“当出现政治僵局时，总统必须具有个人干预的能力。”（这是选民对总统的信任，其后的第二、第三点，分别是国会、同僚对总统的信任，因此之前的conditions (agreement)译为“互信”是合理的）

“权术条件”
建议译为“马基雅维利测验”

“不择手段地”
过贬了。建议译为“不徇私情地”

“这些条件中任何一个如果不能满足”
建议译为“只要失去这些政治互信中的任意一项”

Theodore Roosevelt knew how to do it
西奥多•罗斯福（Theodore Roosevelt）是此道高手

“是此道高手”改为“深谙此道”

Judged by those stern rules, Mr Obama’s path to success is narrow. He is right that most Americans are sick of Washington squabbling. But that is not enough. It is easy for voters to enthuse about bipartisan compromise. It is harder to agree such questions as how large government should be and how to pay for it. On many fronts, the country is split down the middle.
根据这些严苛条件来看，奥巴马想要获得成功的赢面很窄。他提出美国人对于华盛顿无休止的争执已经厌烦这一点确实没错。但这一点本身并不足够。选民对两党妥协表示支持是很容易的。但在具体问题上，如美国政府的规模应该多大，如何获得资金，要想让民众达到共识是很困难的。在很多问题上，美国民众支持方和反对方现在呈五五对分的状态。

“选民对两党妥协表示支持是很容易的。”
翻译痕迹太明显，不符合汉语表达。建议改为“选民明显乐于见到两党之间的妥协。”

It is not very relevant if Mr Obama’s half of the country cheers him on (indeed it may stiffen Republican spines). Public appeals serve Mr Obama if they make Republicans fear losing independent and moderate voters in sufficient numbers to put their seats at risk, starting with 2014’s mid-term elections. Crudely, the game is to find the rare issues that enjoy majority backing in a country split 50-50. Only then will Republican self-interest kick in.
支持奥巴马的那一半美国人为他的政策欢呼毫无用处（实际上共和党可能会因此表现更加强硬）。只有在共和党害怕他们会失去无党派和温和选民，威胁到他们在2014年中期大选以及之后的选举里的议席数时，奥巴马诉诸舆论的行为方可凑效。笼统地说，关键之处在于找到那些在五五对分的美国内受到大多数人支持的稀有议题。只有在这样的议题上共和党人的自身利益才会起作用，从而说服他们妥协。

“无党派和温和选民”
从句子通顺角度考虑，建议译为“独立选票和摇摆选票”

Mr Obama thinks that making the rich shoulder more of a burden is just such an issue. He may be right: certainly some Republican bigwigs are edging towards accepting new tax revenues, as long as tax rates do not rise. Immigration may be another issue ready to outgrow existing partisan boundaries.
奥巴马认为增加富人的负担可能恰恰是这样的议题。他也许没错：确实一些共和党上层人士正在逐渐开始接受在税率不上升的情况下增加新税收的立场。移民可能是另一个可以跨越两党分歧的议题。

That leaves the Machiavelli test. In his first term Mr Obama was cool with congressional allies and chilly with foes. That will have to change. If he takes big fights to the country, he will have to scrap in Washington too. By instinct, he might prefer to stay aloof. That, though, would not be in his self-interest.
这么一来就只剩下权术条件了。在第一任期内奥巴马对民主党议员并不热情，而对共和党议员更是非常冷漠。这必须得改变。如果他把两党之争转移为舆论之争，那他也必须在华盛顿全力争取才行。从个性上来看他也许更喜欢和议员保持距离。但这并不符合他自身的利益。

“权术条件”同理


以上。

@敛刃 @contrary @migmig @悠悠万事97  

引用 liudenny 2012-12-11 16:07

很精彩

引用 jtrconan 2013-1-16 00:45

支持一下

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